On Magic: The Amassing Packs, Loot Packing containers, And Playing | Dies To Elimination Episode 27

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50 Replies to “On Magic: The Amassing Packs, Loot Packing containers, And Playing | Dies To Elimination Episode 27”

  1. They do not reprint cards from older formats, because that way people are stuck in Standard and have to renew their decks every season.

  2. Just a quick correction, at around 20:10 The Professor says that loot boxes contain cosmetics while MTG booster packs contain actual game pieces that are used to play the game. I'm not saying the professor meant that loot boxes ONLY contain cosmetics, but historically loot boxes have been known to contain powerful gameplay altering items such as weapons, upgrades and even powerful ships. Star Wars Battlefront 2 is just one example of a game that had non cosmetic items inside loot boxes.

    As far as the suggestion that boosters aren't loot boxes "because loot boxes don't give you anything physical with any monetary value", remember that the representative Electronic Arts sent to the UK to testify actually compared their digital loot boxes to physical products like LOL surprise and Kinder Surprise as a defense or reasoning to not consider loot boxes gambling. EA's own testimony rested on the argument that there is NO difference between randomized digital goods and randomized physical goods. Personally, I don't agree with this logic myself but only because any physical collectible has the potential to increase in value based on factors such as rarity, desirability and size of the collector community for that specific line of collectibles. LOL Surprise toys aren't likely to increase much in value unless there is a sudden spike in the number of interested collectors and those collectors are willing to pay increased prices to obtain those toys at auction. It certainly wouldn't the first time something like that happened though. There is a decent sized community of collectors who collect McDonald's Happy Meal toys, and some collections has fetched a small fortune at auction in the past.

    But isn't that the point? MTG is a physical collectible. As such it has the potential to increase in value, and for a lot of chase cards it already has. Some cards fetch as much as $20,000 or more for a single copy. This alone makes the case for me to consider booster packs a form of gambling. Even more so with current Standard legal sets as the value of newer cards aren't fully known or understood before the packs are purchased and cracked. That Standard chase Mythic might be worth $20 now, but when it rotates will it keep it's value as a Modern or Commander card or will it fill bargain bins in local game stores everywhere as a $0.50 filler card or a jank combo enabler? Usually the answers to these types of questions aren't known for months after a set releases. Deck brewers need time to brew and test new cards in various formats to see how powerfully they interact with other cards in the format.

    As far as I'm concerned what makes something gambling or not is based on what chemical reaction is produced in the brain and at what stage of the experience that chemical reaction happens. The most addictive part of, say, pulling a slot machine lever is the moment of time that sits in between the moment of commitment to pull the lever and the moment you see the result. It's not the result itself and it's not pulling the lever, it's that moment of anticipation that exists between the choice being made to take the chance and the moment you are shown the result. It's a very exciting moment, nerve racking even, when your mind is in a state of unsureness (not a word), wondering if you wasted your money or if this time it will pay off.

  3. I agree with basically every point in this video, bar one:

    *Clears throat* The defining attribute of a Fetchland is not that it searches for a basic land and puts it into play untapped. The defining attribute of a Fetchland is that is searches for a NONBASIC LAND and puts it into play untapped. Fabled Passage and Prismatic Vista would only be comparable to Fetches in a universe where the Alpha Duals and all other nonbasic lands with basic land types never existed. But as we don't live in that universe, comparing Fetches to lands that can't pull Shocklands is absurd. They aren't comparable. Fetchlands are drastically less valuable in a world without Shocks. Fetchlands that can't fetch Shocks aren't Fetchlands at all. Keeping Fetchlands out of Standard and by extension Pioneer is absolutely the right call, but that means that EVERY OTHER OPPORTUNITY TO REPRINT FETCHES SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE TAKEN. Shove 'em in every masters set, every commander deck, ever dumb promo you can think of. They're a vital component of multiple formats and the only reason not to supply the player-base is indecision about how best to milk us for them. Milk early, milk often, we've clearly proven we're okay with that.

  4. I think the answer to the question on why magic isn't pay to win in its paper form is that you can still want play the game with no mythics or powerful rares. At least back when draft was the main way to play, the way you experienced magic didn't require randomness. Everyone split their packs, you paid to buy the cards and play, and yeah, maybe someone got some really good cards, but that wasn't the point. And then kitchen table magic definitely doesn't care about rares. Only constructed formats care. But standard cycles cards so every card is going to be worthless eventually, and eternal formats care a lot more about older cards which don't come in packs.

  5. Okay, so I'm still watching, but I want to say before I forget, I 100% agree so far. As somebody who just bought a playset of JtMS yesterday after fighting back nausea over the prospect.

    Cracking packs is playing slots, and the house always wins! When I've estimated average value of packs, not taking into account unknowable factors such as some rares being slightly rarer, every set I calculated promised a $3 return on a $4 investment — bearing in mind I was attributing about 20 cents of value, more or less, to chaff.

    Booster packs are a skeevy, predatory ripoff. It's an unethical business model and poor game design to offer a random, blind assortment of cards possessing wildly differing value to adults. Kids can waste their lunch money on chaff.

    Somebody told me on another video that this fairly hideous practice is 100% legal, and I'm just like "Tenuously."

    Moreover, I struggle to see how playing in a Magic tournament is any more of a sport than poker tournaments. If anything, it's a lot cheaper to get into poker, even if you wind up losing your butt just as surely.

    At an FLGS last year, I was told a guy came in and bought a ton of collector's boosters one by one looking for one specific card. That's not rational, and it's f'd that Hasbro isn't concerned by this kind of behavior.

    I've met people who built up expensive collections and then sold them, several times over their lives, for rent.

    I have repeatedly had old, retired and semi-retired, Magic players tell me they cashed out because it sucked too much out of their lives. It's like a natural endpoint to the life cycle :/

    A normal game doesn't take like that.

    And Magic's totally salvageable… but will it be?

    And, yes, I know the "personal responsibility" angle. It's been used to argue for everything from tobacco to poverty. I don't think it's cute or smart, and I won't entertain it, whether from a zealous partisan (Hasbro ain't your friend) or a vulture.

  6. Honestly I'm less concerned about random packs when I actually get stuff I can sell, as opposed to predatory stuff in, and for, the video game I'm playing, with no monetary value.

  7. But see, I don't see that gambling requires a monetary output. Gacha games have links to gambling triggers in the brain and it's all bout the, I need to buy again so I can get what I want. Not just to get the money reward, but just the best possible outcome of input money.
    I know cell phone games got a hammer requiring them to list the odds of all output, not that that stops or changes anything.

  8. Yeah, people just buy packs to play a simple game of magic the gathering on the kitchen table.
    What's that? These packs cost hundreds? Thousands of dollars? There are single packs worth 150.000$ out there?
    No, no. People just buy a simple pack of playing cards to use on their kitchen table. Biggest LUL 2020.
    This is pure gambling. Wizards made a great game that sadly, most of us will never experience without some serious gambling.
    "We just put 15 cards in a pack so you can play!" Sure buddy. SURE. As if anyone can play with 15 cards. Or with one Land. OR with 4 different color cards without synergy. Sure.
    Why not just print ALL of the cards, put them in a set and sell that entire set for 49.99 so we can all enjoy the actual game. Oh wait. Is it because of gambling and Wizards literally printing their own money?

  9. the first 30 minutes is all 'gambling bad gambling bad' then the second half it's "booster packs are gambling but it's fine"…

    Anyways Im' just waiting for a crafting company like Cricket to make an at home imitation TCG printing machine

  10. You don't like war simulators?

    Isn't mtg kinda like a war simulator? Where you amass an army and overcome your enemy with overwhelming force, or control your opponent by countering their strategy, or destroy and take your opponents resources to prevent them from winning?

    You do like crabby patties don't you squidward

  11. Simple way in which to get around gambling laws:
    Wizards guarantee the FULL set in a case of boosters. At least that way, if a player wants to only buy 1 box then its their choice.

  12. I think if they add up the trade option in arena id help it somehow. Great video man. just subbed!
    i started with a few magic vids on my channel
    sub back?
    again, great honest videos!

  13. Another reason they don't re print which you didn't go into is because it allows them to control formats.

    Standard rotates every 3 months. Making it so you need to spend money to stay relevant.

    They are doing the same with mdern legacy etc but in reverse so they don't reprint the cards to the same power level forcing you to buy the old packs which of course is a gamble or let's say buy the secret lairs boxes with the alternative art in.

    It's money in there pocket yet again without having to acknowledged the secondary market.

  14. I think WotC understands the control they have over the paper magic playerbase vs Arena playerbase. In Ravnica Allegiance standard I spent 5 bucks on the beginner bundle and with that and in game currency, was able to buy a complete Esper Control deck minus a few of the check lands. 5 Dollars and I have Esper Control with a full playset of Teferi Hero of Dominaria. I'd have to spend over 100 dollars for a full playset of Teferis alone in paper. If I had to spend anything close to 50 dollars even for that deck I'd say fuck it and walk away, go back to Hearthstone, or something.

    Even though I technically had a deck for paper before I played Arena, I'm definitely primarily an Arena player because it's affordable and generous compared to Online and Paper. I think Arena players wouldn't come close to tolerating the bullshit that paper players do.

  15. This is where I get the majority of my magic content and news from keep up the good work and keep telling the truth no matter how much it might hurt some people

  16. Reprint things to oblivion and the company dies.
    Magic is a luxury. If Rolex manufactured as many watches as their demand, they'd be Tag Heuer and they'll be dead.

  17. #mtgfinance
    Just kidding.
    Gambling is overregulated. The true predators are the government that hand out gambling licenses which they make tons of money on, to their crony friends who then fund their re-election campaigns.
    Keep Magic out of the government's grubby hands.

  18. I like the gambling element of mtg because it allows wizards to make a lot of money, which allows them to continue to produce extremely well polished products for the game I love to play. I appreciate that there are people out there who engage with this element, but I only make bets when I'm guaranteed to win, and so I don't crack packs outside of drafts and sealed. I've done so maybe a dozen times in my life, mostly for celebratory reasons with a small group, similar to having a beer. In an ideal world, the monetary throughput of wizards would be that they make a lot of money off of rich people with too much disposable income, and give a good chunk of that to all the workers, including artists, judges, and community supporters, keeping the game pieces themselves as cheap as possible for the average player. That's not really realistic, but I think its useful to label the ideal, and I think they do a fairly good job of balancing those goals. I like that this is an environment where I as a kid could go buy a starter deck for $20 and play it and develop it for years using cards I got from $12 drafts on the weekends, and also someone can come up to the same store and buy $2,000 worth of boxes and cards and paraphernalia in one day. I'm never gonna be the latter guy and that's really not the best use of money in general, but given the wealth inequality that necessarily exists in our system and therefore the existence of proportionally ridiculous amounts of disposable income, supporting this wonderful network is a pretty good way to reel in a sucker. Could there be less greed? Sure, but we're a country of carpet baggers and robber barons, greed is par for the course

  19. I would argue that a huge part of why people have an interest in magic and why we see it as a "great game" is simply due to it's monetary value. If wotc removed the financial value out of their game a lot of people would, not only lose interest, but also start to think of it as a mediocre game. It's like a celebrity, we'll say "this actor is worth x millions, it's a great actor" and that's credential, financial value converting into emotional value in people's mind. Other TCG that don't do as well as magic looks to be because they struggle to give high financial value to their chase cards, by for example not adopting as much of a predatory model as wotc does. This is not to wotc credit, they simply were the first and got all the market hooked before others could sink in. I think wizard knows that it's in their interest to keep the prices high to keep people believing that magic is a "good game", even though they're also shooting at their player's base foot by the same occasion. I played magic since revised, and in the meantime got invested in the modern board game world, even designing games of my own. There is a lot of very interesting games out there, none of them even coming close (even blinged out kickstarter project) to the money requirement of getting into magic. Truth is, magic is an "ok game", there's a lot of better games designs, but magic keeps it's place throughout the years not because of exemplar design, but by nurturing sentiments of addiction, fomo, and the public perception that "hey, this game cost so much, people are putting so much money in it, it must surely be the greatest game there is!" The more money a player put into the game the harder it is for him/her to admit tha magic isn't the greatest game, because that's admitting of your own mistakes. Seeing Youtube channels figures as well as pro players and the whole community all chant of magic's issues in unison for years and still seeing it escape mostly unscathed is impressive, to say the least.

  20. MTG should be a Living Card Game with special versions of cards printed in foil/alternate art/etc in limited quantities for those who care.

  21. Games like CS;GO and Team fortress 2 (both published by valve and work the same way) have Crates that you have to open with a key that you buy for $2.49 usd each. Then you get tradable items that have monetary value in the secondary market. Most of the items you'll get will he worth less than .50 cents but there is the rare chance to unbox a special item that can range literally up to $10,000+. Loot boxes in games like Battlefront and Overwatch you can buy boxes for money and you can earn them just by leveling up in the game. But the stuff you win is account bound and can not be traded or sold. As someone who did the same thing with my lunch money in high school but on team fortress 2 in hopes to get those special hats to sell and trade and grow my personal wealth, I count that 100% as gambling. I also think because I can crack a pack and get cards which I can sell for profit I also view it 100% as gambling.

  22. DLC, Lootboxes, pay-to-win platoforms, etc are all the bastard mutant clones of the Booster Pack scattered about the lab gazing longingly at our flame thrower and begging us to kill them as an act of sheer mercy.

    Then we, instead, give them $5 and take their pants.

  23. Kinder joy is actually allowed in America, looking at some right now lmao. They sell them at least in Safeway in the candy isle lmao. But I did question if someone could sue them

  24. The dopamine hit from opening packs is 100% a danger lol. How many thousands of dollars have i spent in the past 8 years buying boosters instead of being smart and just buying the cards i want/need. Stupidest choice you can make. I like having copies of as many cards as possible so maybe when a set first comes out i buy a box or a handful of boosters and after that logically one should buy singles but i keep buying packs like an idiot. So yes 100% just knowing that there is a small chance to get that foil mythic thats super rare is such a rush because when you do get it omg its insane.

  25. I initially didn't like the idea of MTG having no rare cards, but honestly that sounds so much better. As long limited remains intact!

  26. It is just a hunch but what if limited only exists as additional excuse that MtG is just a game and that there is no gambling in MtG? So the company can say 'We only sell a card game, these booster packs are nowhere near lottery tickets they are intended for a certain way to play our game but if anyone is pretending otherwise they have a personal gambling issue.' And this way the guilt is moved from company to consumer and WotC can cash out potential gambling addicts without being disturbed by the law. WotC is not stupid at all behind every successful business is a business plan which is actually well constructed.

  27. I'm pretty sure I went to the same High School as Brian, and I also had skipped lunches to go out and play cards with my friends after school. I'd say if kids can get addicted to video/card games because of monetary reasons, it should be seen as some sort of gambling.

  28. If booster packs and other random card acquiring models cease to be, then the concept of card rarity goes out the window, and from there they instead become "limited availability" cards, because they'll instead make limited prints and stick them in overpriced special sets * coughfetchlandssecretlaircough * that players will have to get while they're in stock if they want those cards. One predatory model swapped for another.

  29. I have a theory – Zendikar will feature a 'Diet Fetchland' cycle where you can pay 2 and sac to fetch either types OR you pay 1 life to fetch ONE type of land.

  30. I think the freak out over loot box laws is just people panicking. Think about this. The problem of loot boxes is that there isn't a a direct method to acquire a specific item. Magic doesn't have that problem because the secondary market. Naw about them mentioning the existence of the secondary market in court….?

  31. Hy, love the video, love the channel. Sorry for the late comment and for any spelling or grammatical mistakes.
    First: Tin foil hat moment here. What if Wizards is flying too close to the sun on purpose?
    They are getting bolder and bolder in their recongnition of the secondary market, in a attempt to force a legal issue to discontinue paper magic in order to completly migrate to Arena, where there is no secondary market.
    Second: I find interresting that neither of you talked about the role of the Game Store in all this.
    Yes, wizards decides to print, or not, the cards and etc, but they don't price the cards directly. This happens between the player and the Store selling the singles. And yes there are stores how try to artificially inflate the price of cards (and by Store I'm referring to anyone who trades in large scale, this includes people who sell on ebay and big retailers).
    I'm not saying that stores shouldn't make a profit, it's a bussiness and bussinesse have to make a profit. My point is that a part of the problema is not just the lack of reprints, but that part of the people involved with the game are only focused on the economic aspect and not on the game aspect, and i belive that this should also be a part of this kind of discussion.

  32. I am really tired of seeing your channel on my feed. All you do is bitch about the pricing of the cards constantly. You shitting on the wizards in every single video like they're the fucking Rothschild family is bullshit. You are literally making money personally off the backs of shitting on a successful business. More than 3/4 of your content is you bitching about every single damn release. If anything your constant relentless whining drives players away from this game more and more. Every time i sit down at a table to play magic and there's someone there just like you. I seriously don't play for a long ass time after because i hate dealing with that pessimistic bullshit ruining the game I enjoy. Find new fucking content dude jesus christ.

  33. I seem to remember a movie in which gambling is much more extreme than MtG will ever be. Now let me think… I think it was about a factory that sold millions of chocolate bars worldwide for a chance of winning only 5 Black Lotus cards… eh, I mean, golden tickets…

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